Nevermore Bow in Pre. - Guild Wars Forums

The one Casey Squid · Jul 24, 2009, 03:28 PM // 15:28

I was just toying around in pre with a ranger I made when I read that you could use the bonus weapons while in Ascalon. The point of the question is you need 9 markmenship to use it and that seems to take forever to get to. Even if you invest your points just into it. I have my ranger at level 8 and he only has seven max. I was wondering if anyone knew what the lowest possible level for me to be able to use the bow? Do runes even exist in pre?

lord of all tyria · Jul 24, 2009, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Minor runes exist, and you can get a +1 helm for 50 red iris flowers off the yak. I am willing to be corrected, I don't pre-sear much.

Shemsu Anpw · Jul 24, 2009, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Technically it's level one. The only problem is the damage is scaled down from max the bow can do depending on the difference of the bow's requirements and your att level. On the plus side as I recall the Poison length increase of 33% is fully useable even if you don't meet certain reqquirements.

Ugh · Jul 24, 2009, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shemsu Anpw

On the plus side as I recall the Poison length increase of 33% is fully useable even if you don't meet certain reqquirements.

Not in pre, there's no poison.

You could probably get up to marks 9 around level 10 or so. Or, you could buy a minor rune and Yakington's helm to get there sooner.

Verene · Jul 24, 2009, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Even without meeting the requirement you can use the bow. It'll just do half damage. However, half-damage from a max bow is still more than anything else you'll pick up in pre-searing.

Quaker · Jul 24, 2009, 03:58 PM // 15:58

You can use the weapons, but you still need to meet the requirements to get max usage out of them. For the bow, if you don't have 9 in Marksmanship, the damage output will be about the same as a "starter weapon" (according to wiki), so you may want to use some other bow you find, that you meet the requirements of.
For staffs and wands, the req isn't as important as you are mostly doing damage with spells and the other mods on the weapon still work normally. Offhands have half the energy if you don't meet the req.

Info - http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Requirement

Archress Shayleigh · Jul 24, 2009, 04:04 PM // 16:04

For maximum damage output I think it's level 9 or 10 if that's your question. What I understood is this: What level must I be to meet the requirements for the bow?

Verene · Jul 24, 2009, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

You can use the weapons, but you still need to meet the requirements to get max usage out of them. For the bow, if you don't have 9 in Marksmanship, the damage output will be about the same as a "starter weapon", so you may want to use some other bow you find, that you meet the requirements of.
For staffs and wands, the req isn't as important as you are mostly doing damage with spells and the other mods on the weapon still work normally. Offhands have half the energy if you don't meet the req.

Info - http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Requirement

I always thought it was half-damage.

Which is certainly what I always noticed while my Ranger was still like...level 5 and using that bow.

Quaker · Jul 24, 2009, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verene

I always thought it was half-damage.

Which is certainly what I always noticed while my Ranger was still like...level 5 and using that bow.

Actually, I thought that too - and I'm still not sure. I was quoting wiki, which may not be entirely accurate. Best thing for the OP to do is to equip the bow and see if it does more damage than his next best bow and take it from there.

nkuvu · Jul 24, 2009, 04:40 PM // 16:40

From the Damage calculation page on the wiki (scroll down to "Weapon Requirements"):

Quote:

NOTE: It has been noted elsewhere in this wiki (in the Weapons article), that dropped weapons have different rules if you don't meet the requirements than collector or reward weapons. According to the Weapons article, dropped items do 1/2 damage, rather than the damage of a starter weapon, so a sword that does 11-22, which was a dropped item, should do 5-11 if you don't meet the requirement. There is no reference in either article as to bonus weapons, though from anecdotal evidence, it follows the same equation as dropped weapons.

That makes it sound like the Nevermore bow would be half damage rather than starter bow damage (and that would fit my recollection, but it's been a while since I've used a Nevermore bow without meeting requirements aside from pulling -- and when pulling I don't pay attention to damage).

October Jade · Jul 24, 2009, 05:30 PM // 17:30

You can use the req9 weapons at level seven. At that point you have enough attribute points to set your weapon mastery to 7, and putting a minor rune in the Yakkington headgear will give you the final +2.

Shaydow · Jul 24, 2009, 06:39 PM // 18:39

I wouldnt use the nevermore btw, my permapre ( till LDoA ) ranger uses the darksteel.

Dont forget your handy dandy fire imp to!

:P

Hope this helps.

*EDIT*

BTW guys, I figured the querstion of half dmg or not was easy to test, and I was right. Here ya go.

Against a lvl 1 Grawl with darksteel
@ Marks hits before death

@3 marks = 14,8,8,14,14,14,14
@5 marks = 17,17,8,17,19,17
@7 marks = 21,24,21,24

I know its not entirelly conclusive becuase I was using a 20% sundering, but Im pretty sure the numbers are still clearlly showing that its a scaling damage system.

You can use the bow at any Marks lvl, the higher it is, the more it will do, un till marks 9.

Hope this helps.

Killamus · Jul 24, 2009, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Alright.

At level 7 with Yak's headgear with a minor marks rune you can get 9 marksmanship.
At level 9 with just a minor marks rune you can get 9 marksmanship
At level 11 with no runes you can get 9 in marksmanship

A Nevermore flatbow does starter bow damage until you hit 9 marksmanship. The damage you're seeing is from your marksmanship runes, the same reason you'll do more damage at 16 marksmanship then at 9, even with the same bow (Assuming a Q9 bow). It also helps that your level is far above that of a grawl, which makes more critical hits - And more damage.

In presearing, very few things have high armor. In fact, almost none. Because of this, the 20/20 on the darksteel makes it rather useless, along with the -5 energy and lower attack speed. Use the nevermore, with a charslaying bow grip if possible.

EDIT: With a level 7 ranger and 8 in Marksmanship, I went out and killed ice elementals.

Nevermore: Lowest: 11, highest (Critical) 25
Starter: Lowest: 9, Highest 11 (Couldn't tell if it was a critcal)

So there does appear to be some difference in the amount of damage, but not enough to matter. But it's hardly a 12-14 damage bow.

I can't do the math because I'm not on a level 20. If someone does, and could post the highest/lowest at 8 in marks, it would help a lot.

Shaydow · Jul 24, 2009, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killamus

Alright.

At level 7 with Yak's headgear with a minor marks rune you can get 9 marksmanship.
At level 9 with just a minor marks rune you can get 9 marksmanship
At level 11 with no runes you can get 9 in marksmanship

A Nevermore flatbow does starter bow damage until you hit 9 marksmanship. The damage you're seeing is from your marksmanship runes, the same reason you'll do more damage at 16 marksmanship then at 9, even with the same bow (Assuming a Q9 bow). It also helps that your level is far above that of a grawl, which makes more critical hits - And more damage.

In presearing, very few things have high armor. In fact, almost none. Because of this, the 20/20 on the darksteel makes it rather useless, along with the -5 energy and lower attack speed. Use the nevermore, with a charslaying bow grip if possible.

EDIT: With a level 7 ranger and 8 in Marksmanship, I went out and killed ice elementals.

Nevermore: Lowest: 11, highest (Critical) 25
Starter: Lowest: 9, Highest 11 (Couldn't tell if it was a critcal)

So there does appear to be some difference in the amount of damage, but not enough to matter. But it's hardly a 12-14 damage bow.

I can't do the math because I'm not on a level 20. If someone does, and could post the highest/lowest at 8 in marks, it would help a lot.

It doesnt matter, you and me have proven a point of what was the original posters question. Using the /bonus items are better then using the starter weapons by FAR. If you dont understand why, go back and look at what I said and what Killamus said and do some math. If you still dont understand . . . .

sorry?

I can explain if you want, but I'm really an arrogant ass it seems, since logic seems to escape most.

Otherwise, I hope this helps

*edit* and

1) I dont have any runes
2) Even if I did, if I was at the @ Marks lvl WITH our WITHOUT a rune, it wouldnt have mattered. I mean, why would it? What?

**EDIT** P.P.S =

Im not lvl 20 either :/ Im lvl 12 dude. It was a pretty conclusive test.

MisterB · Jul 24, 2009, 09:53 PM // 21:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaydow

It doesnt matter, you and me have proven a point of what was the original posters question. Using the /bonus items are better then using the starter weapons by FAR. If you dont understand why, go back and look at what I said and what Killamus said and do some math. If you still dont understand . . . .

sorry?

I can explain if you want, but I'm really an arrogant ass it seems, since logic seems to escape most.

Otherwise, I hope this helps

The numbers you posted only show that there is a range of damage that the weapon deals, which is true of nearly all weapons excepting candy canes. The Darksteel is sundering, customized, and has a 15% damage mod, you left out your level, and you were attacking level 1 targets. You also did not say how many of these hits were critical, if any.

To eliminate the most variables, attack a level 20 target with 60 armor on a level 20 character. Sundering makes testing annoying.

tl;dr: Your numbers were meaningless. Too many variables undefined.

edit: I tested the Nevermore Flatbow on the (level 20)60 armor barrel in Isle of Nameless on my level 20 Ranger:

@7 Marksmanship: 5-8(11)
@8 Marksmanship: 5-9(12)
@9 Marksmanship: 16-30(42)

Numbers in parentheses are critical hits. These numbers include the damage bonus from the 15% inherent modifier in addition to the 20% damage bonus from customization. I think it's safe to say that damage from this particular /bonus weapon is reduced to that of a starter weapon if attribute is not met. I tested the Darksteel briefly, and the numbers also matched, except for Sundering triggers.

I do not have a starter bow to test with.

Jul 24, 2009, 03:28 PM // 15:28	#1
The one Casey Squid Wilds Pathfinder --> Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Northeast Guild: Knights Of Thulcandra [KoT] Profession: W/E	Nevermore Bow in Pre. I was just toying around in pre with a ranger I made when I read that you could use the bonus weapons while in Ascalon. The point of the question is you need 9 markmenship to use it and that seems to take forever to get to. Even if you invest your points just into it. I have my ranger at level 8 and he only has seven max. I was wondering if anyone knew what the lowest possible level for me to be able to use the bow? Do runes even exist in pre?

Jul 24, 2009, 03:58 PM // 15:58	#6
Quaker Hell's Protector Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Canada Guild: Brothers Disgruntled	You can use the weapons, but you still need to meet the requirements to get max usage out of them. For the bow, if you don't have 9 in Marksmanship, the damage output will be about the same as a "starter weapon" (according to wiki), so you may want to use some other bow you find, that you meet the requirements of. For staffs and wands, the req isn't as important as you are mostly doing damage with spells and the other mods on the weapon still work normally. Offhands have half the energy if you don't meet the req. Info - http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Requirement Last edited by Quaker; Jul 24, 2009 at 04:33 PM // 16:33..

Jul 24, 2009, 06:39 PM // 18:39	#12
Shaydow Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jun 2009	I wouldnt use the nevermore btw, my permapre ( till LDoA ) ranger uses the darksteel. Dont forget your handy dandy fire imp to! :P Hope this helps. EDIT BTW guys, I figured the querstion of half dmg or not was easy to test, and I was right. Here ya go. Against a lvl 1 Grawl with darksteel @ Marks hits before death @3 marks = 14,8,8,14,14,14,14 @5 marks = 17,17,8,17,19,17 @7 marks = 21,24,21,24 I know its not entirelly conclusive becuase I was using a 20% sundering, but Im pretty sure the numbers are still clearlly showing that its a scaling damage system. You can use the bow at any Marks lvl, the higher it is, the more it will do, un till marks 9. Hope this helps. Last edited by Shaydow; Jul 24, 2009 at 06:55 PM // 18:55..

Jul 24, 2009, 07:55 PM // 19:55	#13
Killamus Guest Join Date: Oct 2008	Alright. At level 7 with Yak's headgear with a minor marks rune you can get 9 marksmanship. At level 9 with just a minor marks rune you can get 9 marksmanship At level 11 with no runes you can get 9 in marksmanship A Nevermore flatbow does starter bow damage until you hit 9 marksmanship. The damage you're seeing is from your marksmanship runes, the same reason you'll do more damage at 16 marksmanship then at 9, even with the same bow (Assuming a Q9 bow). It also helps that your level is far above that of a grawl, which makes more critical hits - And more damage. In presearing, very few things have high armor. In fact, almost none. Because of this, the 20/20 on the darksteel makes it rather useless, along with the -5 energy and lower attack speed. Use the nevermore, with a charslaying bow grip if possible. EDIT: With a level 7 ranger and 8 in Marksmanship, I went out and killed ice elementals. Nevermore: Lowest: 11, highest (Critical) 25 Starter: Lowest: 9, Highest 11 (Couldn't tell if it was a critcal) So there does appear to be some difference in the amount of damage, but not enough to matter. But it's hardly a 12-14 damage bow. I can't do the math because I'm not on a level 20. If someone does, and could post the highest/lowest at 8 in marks, it would help a lot. Last edited by Killamus; Jul 24, 2009 at 08:14 PM // 20:14..

Jul 24, 2009, 03:41 PM // 15:41	#2
lord of all tyria Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Mar 2007	Minor runes exist, and you can get a +1 helm for 50 red iris flowers off the yak. I am willing to be corrected, I don't pre-sear much.

Jul 24, 2009, 03:43 PM // 15:43	#3
Shemsu Anpw Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Sephirot - Keter	Technically it's level one. The only problem is the damage is scaled down from max the bow can do depending on the difference of the bow's requirements and your att level. On the plus side as I recall the Poison length increase of 33% is fully useable even if you don't meet certain reqquirements.

Jul 24, 2009, 03:56 PM // 15:56	#5
Verene Furnace Stoker Join Date: Jan 2009 Guild: [SOTA] Profession: D/	Even without meeting the requirement you can use the bow. It'll just do half damage. However, half-damage from a max bow is still more than anything else you'll pick up in pre-searing.

Jul 24, 2009, 04:04 PM // 16:04	#7
Archress Shayleigh Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Guild Hall Profession: R/	For maximum damage output I think it's level 9 or 10 if that's your question. What I understood is this: What level must I be to meet the requirements for the bow?

Jul 24, 2009, 05:30 PM // 17:30	#11
October Jade Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: drifting between Indiana and NorCal	You can use the req9 weapons at level seven. At that point you have enough attribute points to set your weapon mastery to 7, and putting a minor rune in the Yakkington headgear will give you the final +2.